Patriot Golf Day - Aug. 29 - Sept. 1, 2008

Beginning Friday, Aug. 29 through Monday, Sept. 1, golfers nationwide will be asked to donate a minimum of $1 in support of Patriot Golf Day. All funds raised will benefit the Folds of Honor Foundation to provide educational scholarships to families of those who have become disabled or lost their lives in the line of duty. In 2007, some 3,200 golf facilities nationwide participated in Patriot Golf Day, raising more than $1 million dollars. The Roanoke area golf courses participating this year are: Ol' Monterey, Hidden Valley, Ashley Plantation, and Hanging Rock. Pictures courtesy of PLAYGOLFAMERICA.

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PGA Professional Dan Rooney (left), an F-16 fighter pilot in the Oklahoma Air National Guard, is the founder of the Folds of Honor Foundation. Major Rooney, call sign Noonan, has served two tours in Iraq, and will be returning for another tour this summer. "We have lost more than 4,000 soldiers. They have given the ultimate sacrifice. America can come together in the spirit of golf and have a dramatic impact. We have an opportunity to make a difference for the families who have made the ultimate sacrifice." Read Dan's story HERE.

Countryside Golf Club Hosts "old white people"

Countryside is a place where old white people (predominantly . . . sorry, Mr. Nash) can go and play a cheap round of golf subsidized by the City. - StarCityHarbinger
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There is so much wrong with this post it is hard to know where to start and really does not deserve comment except for this most egregious proclamation.

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Now, I know this will evoke a round of comments by Mr. Bostwick a legal aid attorney, but after his postings recently and the feedback I've received regarding his psychotic posts anything he has to say is diminished and lets hope he sees what a huge mistake it was to make such outrageous comments.

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Sure my emotions regarding this recent dare I say grandstanding by Mr. Rosen was met with well, lets face it, hostility. Mr. Rosen accused me of smearing him in front of a member of the media at the "State of the City" address. I'm still looking for where exactly I smeared him. Criticism is part of being in public office and all current and former officeholders have experience far worse criticism. They take the more prudent road of "ignoring it".

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Those who have followed the Countryside saga for these many years understand my frustration. The frustration is that suddenly the financing of Countryside is "news" to this Council when I've repeated ad nauseam for 3 years starting with the option to purchase in May 2005 to the purchase in November, 2005. Me, an ordinary citizen just asked the Director of Finance without fanfare how it was financed, what they had to pay the airport for the lease of the RPZ, and what was the real estate tax revenue they were forgoing. I had emailed this information to Dr. Trinkle a year ago after he had asked Ms. Burcham at a Council meeting (a year ago) to gather the financial information. I tried to get the media to inform Roanoke citizens to no avail.

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Back to the "old white people" who play at Countryside Golf Club subsidized by the City. All you have to do is watch the slide show in the right column to see ALL those "old white people". And as Mr. Nash pointed out the golf course since it opened in 1967 has been subsidized by itself.

Interrupting Is All Ego

I'm sure everyone has experienced the rude interrupter. You are having a conversation with someone and another person walks up and interrupts talking nonstop. This happened to me again today with the same person. So I did some research on why this person does not know how annoying it is to both parties.

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Now if it is urgent and they say excuse me anyone would not think it rude. However, this person has done it to me multiple times just because. It is always about himself or his ideas. not to join the conversation but totally off the topic between you and another. So what do you do with such rudeness? What I did was walk away as the person talked nonstop but this left the other person to deal with him. This seems to be the suggested way to handle the situation but seems cruel to the person left behind. My poor left-behind called and said sarcastically "thank you so much for leaving me fend for myself with Mr. Ego." This is what I found:

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Interrupting is all ego. It suggests that what I have to say is more valuable and important than what you have to say. It inappropriately elevates the interrupter. It communicates that my needs, my ideas, my thoughts dominate and leave little room for you.

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Egocentricity is the belief that one is the center of the known universe and, therefore, deserves to occupy the podium, if not the bully pulpit, at all times. Many chronic interrupters believe that nobody else could possibly have anything of value to say, at least compared to them. We can choose not to play their ill-mannered game.

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Is this a learned behavior? So do you have any ideas on what you would do?

Countryside Petition Had 1,290 Signatures

At Monday's Council meeting I heard it said that "I did not get that signal" referring to the fact that the citizens/voters wanted to keep Countryside a Golf Course. This came from Councilman Rosen. A year ago we presented a petition of 1,290 signatures that included Senator John Edwards and Congressman Bob Goodlate. I realize those on Council now were not paying attention to Countryside or other city issues at the time so I will remind them of this petition at my next encounter.

Serving On Council Is "Personal"

In May, 2005, the Countryside neighborhood woke up to the morning paper to find that Roanoke City had taken the option to purchase the golf course property. We were in shock. I decided to email the Councilman whose name was quoted in the paper to find out what was going on. That was Brian Wishneff. Mr. Wishneff and Mr. Lea along with Mr. Townsend (Planning Department at the time) came to my house and there was no room for every neighbor. They lined my driveway, hallway, and back porch. I remember Mr. Lea and Mr. Wishneff at the time were surprised our homes were even here. No one on Council had visited the property or knew what they were buying. We were promised inclusion in the plans for the property. I know both Mr. Wishneff and Mr. Lea made every effort to get us in on the ground floor because my FOIA request of emails demonstrated it to be so. These emails also demonstrated that the other members of Council and the City Administration felt otherwise.

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So to this day we continue to be twisted and turned. Lifted up and let down and SURPRISED. Just when things relax as they did a week or two ago and we plan great things for our neighborhood .... wham we get our legs swept out from under us again. We have gone through so many Council members now I can't count. There is only one original member left who was serving in 2005 and that is Mr. Lea.

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I ask you all who criticize our neighborhoods distrust to put yourself in our shoes. We are stunned in May, 2005, a developer pulls out never seeing any plans, more RFPs lead to nothing, one RFP last minute is replied to resulting in one nightmare of a plan so it goes back for revision and a year goes by and nothing. We attend every Parks and Recreation Master Plan workshop hoping for a crumb, nothing. Then it is left for the next Council ... then as it seems a longer term lease is going to relieve the tension .... wham - let's see if we can sell it. We were promised that it would never be cut up into pieces. We were promised we would be included in the process. It never happened and at the 2:00 PM Council meeting just proved it never will. So walk a mile in our shoes before you cast a stone on our mistrust. We don't need surprises like at the 2:00 PM Council meeting and Mr. Rosen's pronouncement that now we might sell it either keeping it a golf course for a certain amount of time (then what?) or turning it into 1/2 park and 1/2 business. Were we included in that option? No, it was purely a financial and business idea. Where did I here this before? "It's not personal, it's business" - the reply from the affected person was "it was personal to me".

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So pardon me if I don't think YOUR ideas are good ideas. Nobody has asked us for ANY of OUR ideas ever.

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If you read any conflicts about the 2:00 PM meeting CLICK HERE -I posted a link to the webcast before so you yourself can hear the 45 minute co mingling of RFPs and confusion.

Another Update: Court Rosen Wants Countryside Sold

Mr. Rosen said, “he thinks it would be worth while to engage a broker to see what they believe the value of the golf course is” and “and maybe someone is out there that may want to buy the golf course and operate it“. Read the article in The Roanoke Times today and my article that will be in The Roanoke Star-Sentinel online Thursday and out on Friday.

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At the 2:00 PM Roanoke City Council meeting Court Rosen threw a monkey wrench into what was going smoothly and on "course" for a 5 - 10 year Request For Proposal for operation of the golf course. There was a 40 plus minute debate Monday afternoon that became clear that we have Council members working their way into selling the property. Mr. Rosen wanted financial data on the city's debt obligation compiled and a broker to assess it's sale value. He quoted some erroneous capital costs stating that the cart path repairs were 1.2 million dollars. With grass it is $25,000 and full pavement is $180,000. SEE corrected numbers below from Mr. Townsend. LISTEN AND WATCH HERE - pick 2:20 PM.

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It is not rocket science what the finances are with the golf course and it has been available for years. Mr. Nash, said Rosen was " mixing apples and oranges". The debt service is "apples" and the "operational costs" are oranges. WE ARE TALKING ORANGES. The golf course has sustained itself since its inception in 1967 and as Mr. Nash pointed out "something happens to THINGS when the City buys it". Meadowbrook, the current operator, has under reported their profit since taking over operation. Why might you think that Meadowbrook under reports it's profit? Why might you think that they might just want the $17,500 yearly lease reduced even further for a 5 year lease. Yes, rounds are down because of the state of flux but as any smart business would do - not report their actual profits to keep their lease cost low. I know that to be so in this case. It has not been marketed and heck, people say "Oh, I did not know it was still there".

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There are other local golf facilities wanting to operate the golf course. One in particular that has past experience in caring for the golf course had just called me between the two Council meetings Monday begging to be able to do a presentation to City Council. So now we know that they are out there but just can't get in.

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As I have been telling City Council for 2 years the almost $4 million loan on the property is financed at Carter Bank, amortized for 15 years at 6.25%. Have they ever heard of an amortization schedule? So exactly what can't they figure out in about 5 minutes? If I here "we can never have too much information" one more time well just say my hair is on fire. There is more to this than meets the eye. There are members of Council hell bent on having it sold for whatever reason. One thing that Mr. Rosen said, "we need money for neighborhoods and schools". So I guess we are not a neighborhood. He also said he did "not hear any citizens say they wanted to keep the golf course during the election". Well, Mr. Rosen, must not have listened or more precisely turned a deaf ear. It came out in forums where he said "we can never have too much information" and I will have to "study it". Roanoke City is NOT a corporation and City Council works for the people. City Administration is the business side of our local government and City Council members are the balance that weighs that with the well-being of the citizens. This is not the Pharma lobby he had been a spokesman for in Washington, DC, prior to coming to Roanoke.

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There was a briefing Monday as well on the NEW REC CENTER planned for Fallon Park. What's wrong with this picture? Let's take some of that amphitheatre money just sitting there and pay off this loan. Just think how much could have been saved these past years in interest. Way over 1/2 million in interest only now.

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Buena Vista BUILT a municipal golf course that sustains itself - Vista Links is just one example. Ms. Burcham is wrong when she said she could not find golf course that are not subsidized by the City. Looking at the financial figures she picked up from other golf course - they had "depreciation" as an expense. Well Countryside has ITS OWN equipment and there was NO depreciation on Countryside's disclosed financial information. The golf course operation has cost them not one red cent - it has made money as Mr. Nash stated. The debt service is the fault of the City and should be taken care of separately. Why is it that other projects seem valuable enough to put money into but Countryside not only sustains itself while other parks have to be subsidized by our tax dollar? I don't have to repeat the projects that get funding here. Again NOT ONE red cent has gone into the golf course and the debt - well the City got themselves into that by financing like a mortgage so they just need to deal with it!

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Mr. Rosen does not realize or does not care that we have no recreation in this part of the City. Mr. Rosen though cares for a dog park and has no concern that a "memorial tree" is planted right in the proposed location of the Highland Park dog park.

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NEW information just received on current operator's offer:

The cost to replace the irrigation system is $850,000. The golf cart repairs would be $300,000 with full pavement replacement and minor repairs to the clubhouse at $50,000. Meadowbrook wants $1.2 million upfront for these repairs. In turn Meadowbrook for a 10 year lease offered rent payment of 7.5% of total revenue or the following:

2009 = $30,000, 2010 = $50,000, 2011 - 2018 = $100,000

**Total revenue reported by Meadowbrook in 2005 was $917,839, 2006 was $912,319, and 2007 was $815,174. This would relate to the 7.5%.

Countryside Maintenance - Begging For Dollars

Monday evening the sale of the Countryside property (one acre) to Newbern, LLC, for the TRANE building expansion will be finalized. The Planning Commission was unanimous in their recommendation. It will come before Roanoke City Council at the 7:00 PM meeting. This acre will pinch the 2nd and 3rd fairway and at a minimum will make it very "unattractive". I will ask Council to "earmark" the $55,000 paid for the acre for maintenance of Countryside Golf Course. Maintenance or improvements that will not be covered by the expected new operating agreement being drafted. As some of you may remember - the most urgent need is the golf cart paths and irrigation system. Below are two conflicting architectural renderings. The first is what I received several months ago along with a "Request For Comment". The second is an attachment on Monday's agenda. Now maybe I was not updated on the change in building design and the parking reconfiguration that took place prior to the Planning Commission review. At this point I don't know what is actually going there or when. If you figure it out please let me know.

Rendering I Received with Request For Comment

Rendering attached to Monday's agenda.

Lobbying For Countryside Golf Club

Lobbyist - let's kick the lobbyists out of Washington - but not out of Roanoke City. It takes a heck of an amount of lobbying to "get through" to City Council and City Administration. They keep dancing "a little side step" a song I heard from the movie something about Texas and a whorehouse. Just ask the dog park advocates what it takes to get what you want or what you don't want. In both Council's and the Administration's defense they have a lot on their plate. Council is part-time and Administrators .... well have you ever read the FULL Council Agenda with attachments. It boggles the mind just putting that "tree killer" together. OK, you say, what is my point. My point is something our current Mayor then former Mayor told me/us back in 2005 when Countryside first came on the chopping block. He said, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" and that "they [city admin] will wear you down and wear you out as that is their full-time job". Well we know how it is to run around trying to figure out what the strategy is for the next round of Countryside (pun intended). I told someone last night that if I were a betting person, I'd say we are looking at a 5 year operating agreement out for a Request For Proposal. They will extend the lease with Meadowbrook for a few months. Of course, Meadowbrook may or may not bid on it but probably will - renewal with the Airport Commission for 5 years ... effectively Council will see this as a win and try to make us feel like WE have won. Hold your horses. Look at it politically - they get to pass the buck to probably a new or practically new future Council. No permanency in direction - will we be back at square one in five years. Will we still be here (alive and kicking)? Maybe we'll just be too old and tired to fight anymore.

Countryside Swimming Pool Now Dirt

The residents of the Countryside neighborhood had been listening to the heavy equipment coaxing large chunks of concrete from the once vibrant Countryside Swim Club for a week. In its day it had brought the community together with family gatherings and childhood birthday parties. The swim club is not the only community gathering place lost to the new "urbanisim" but it is representative of the community bonds that have been broken throughout the city. What will replace Countryside Swim Club? I expect whatever goes there will have to prove to bring "revenue" to the city and "feel good" community bonding is not the priority. Though it may be an acceptable use in the long run - it will not be the Swim Club community center it once was - we must embrace "change". We don't want to be labeled "change haters". Resisting "change" insinuates you are not patriotic. If you are not willing to sacrifice your beloved piece of history to "new and shiny" you must be a "change hater". Is change always good?

Countryside Tennis Building Deterioration

The Countryside tennis building is not looking so good these days. There is a possibility that the lessee will not renew his lease at such a late date. Court time is sold during the summer and I think this lessee has just about run out of patience. You can't blame him. Meadowbrook cannot lease the building due to the lease with Roanoke City still pending. Neither will Roanoke City will not lease it directly. So a "catch 22" for the current lessee. Not only that but the building is in badly need of repairs. I understand that the city building inspector will not come out to inspect it which is probably due to the City actually owning it. Meadowbrook receives the revenue from leasing it. Will this quandary ever be resolved?

Tennis Building Termites?

"Born To Be Wild" At National Night Out

We had a packed pavilion at our annual National Night Out Against Crime. We ran out of plates and drinks but that did not stop us. We were "giddy" with the media coverage and Council's leaning toward leaving the golf course and us alone permanently. We may not be there yet - as The Roanoke Times editorial staff attempts to "snuff" us out of our euphoria today but nothing could hold back our hearts last night. We had a visit from Vice-Mayor Sherman Lea, Fire/EMS, and Roanoke City Police. A few vice officers arrived as those who lingered late were getting out of hand ... you know who you are - BORN TO BE WILD! Turn your speakers on:

Article located by Becky Johnson

What Came First...

What Came First, the Chicken or the Egg?

Roanoke City Council met August 4 in an information session on Countryside at City Hall. The session began around 11:15 and lasted for about two hours. During that time the full council was briefed in depth by Brian Townsend before giving way to a question/answer time.

Much of Townsend’s briefing was geared to providing the new council members; Rosen, Price, Bowers, and Nash; and opportunity to become familiar with the history of the Countryside purchase and development plans by the City.

Much of the briefing centered on how the airport impacts the club. With a significant chunk of land leased to the city by the airport commission and with that lease due to expire in mid November, the city will need to renegotiate the lease for golf to continue. In addition, the airport commission wishes to widen the Runway Protection Zone (RPZ). To accomplish that goal, a land swap is being proposed that will swap two tracts on either side of Ranch Road for land on either side of the current RPZ. The parcels offered by the Airport Commission for the swap have been altered from the original proposal, however. No doubt Valerie will go back and tweak her now famous RPZ image to illustrate the current swap proposal. Townsend stated the reason for the change was due to the overall value of the property being taken by the airport commission not matching the value of the property the airport commission was giving to the city (at least that’s the way I understood what he was saying.)

Part of the informational briefing centered on the current state of the golf facility. Townsend informed the council that Meadowbrook currently pays $17,500 for the lease to operate the course. The annual debt service for FY 2009 is just over $470,000. Meadowbrook reported $87,500 in profit in 2005, $79,800 in 2006, and $43,200 in 2007.

Townsend also covered the short-term capital improvement needs for Countryside:

Cart Paths:

-$25,000 for paving paths near tees and greens/returning rest to grass

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-$180,000 for full replacement

Irrigation System

-$100,000 for repairs

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-$700,000 for full replacement

Burcham and Townsend then presented their two basic recommendations:

1. Short Term Golf Course Agreements

-Extend limited lease agreements with a management group for five years

-Finalize Land swap and Lease Extensions

-Limited capital improvements

-Identify additional redevelopment ideas (may still develop at a later date)

2. “Golf Course Stewardship” Long Term Golf Commitment

-Finalize land swap and lease renewal with Airport Commission

-RFP operation and management lease

-Feasibility Study for golf operation

-Invest in the capital improvement plan

The discussion was focused and productive. Most council members stated their support for maintaining the golf course. The real debate seemed to be centered on the airport lease. Here comes the chicken and egg part. Dr. Trinkle and Mrs. Mason were especially focused on the upcoming possible lease extension by the airport commission. The question is will the airport commission extend the lease so that the city can then commit to golf or does the city need to commit to golf so that that airport commission will extend the lease? Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Mr. Nash and Dr. Trinkle also broached the subject of a permanent commitment to golf. One thing that our organization hopes to avoid is another round of development roulette five years down the road when the housing market looks sunnier. We want a firm commitment to support fully Countryside Golf Course. One way to demonstrate that is by seeking a long-term lease with the airport commission. If the airport commission were to commit to a long-term lease (ten years or longer) where the city guaranteed that the land would remain a golf course, then the airport commission could be assured of having a low-density acceptable use of the property.

Mayor Bowers made several comments that cheered us. He stated that he didn’t want this process to drag out. He wants citizens to be heard in the matter and then a firm time window of no more than a year established to iron out the details of the city’s course of action. Of course, with both the Meadowbrook lease and airport commission lease all coming due in October/November, that time table will need to be pushed up even more.

Mayor Bowers also stated that Roanokers tell him that they are “…green with envy…” over Salem’s commitment to parks and recreation facilities. He maintained that Countryside is an ideal location to develop our own recreation facility with tennis and competitive swimming components.

Court Rosen and Anita Price did a lot of listening, but Rosen did state that the city can make Countryside Golf Course are real amenity. He mentioned that thinking out of the box on how to utilize the assets of the course is important. He gave for example, the idea that memberships may be offered to employees to businesses that choose to locate in the city.

Anita Price quietly made the powerful point that the city and Meadowbrook need to be doing more to market and publicize the course. She pointed out that the visitor brochure produced by the Roanoke Valley Convention and Visitor’s Bureau does not list Countryside in the golf listings. Other public courses are listed, but not the city’s course. Several phone books serve the valley. Interestingly, if you want to look up Countryside in the yellow pages of the Verizon phone book (the largest and arguably most popular), you won’t find it listed at all. It does appear in the “Yellow Book” with an attractive quarter page ad.

Mr. Lea restated his long-standing support for the 18 hole golf course. Like the other council members, he stated a desire to meet with the airport commission.

Dr. Trinkle, in addition to his other comments, stated that he wants the city to commit to five to ten years of being good stewards of the golf course. He also wants to hear from the public about how the facility can benefit the community and schools.

Mrs. Burcham began to wind down the meeting by stressing that the staff would like to put forth an RFP for a 5-year lease to run the golf course facility. She stated that the council and staff would need to define expenses and responsibilities before entering into the lease agreement.

At that point, the discussion became a little murky and difficult to follow. We weren’t sure exactly what will be brought before the council in terms of RFP’s at future meetings. However, we believe that Council directed staff to bring an RFP proposal with at least a five year lease built in back to them. It also appeared that some council members directed the staff to negotiate with Meadowbrook for a long-term commitment; however, that negotiation may be handled through the RFP process. (The council members sat with their backs to the public and there were no microphones, so it was sometimes difficult to hear comments and read body language.)

Countryside Neighborhood Alliance had a strong showing with many of our friends present. In addition, representatives from the golf course attended.

The session produced news of an upcoming meeting with the airport commission to discuss several issues. Perhaps the lease extension and land swap will come up. This meeting will take place on September 2 at noon. We didn’t catch the location.

Overall, we were very pleased with the tone and seriousness of the discussions. The council members were civil to and respectful of the public and each other. They discussed, unrelated to Countryside, having a retreat at a local venue (most likely the city owned Apple Ridge Farm) to discuss issues and set goals and priorities. If the chickens can be hatched, Countryside Golf Course may have a bright future.

City Council to Be Briefed Monday

"I think it was a mistake to even try to do something with it in the first place," Nash said. "But the city backed into a situation, whether they intended to or not, where they have a municipal course, and hopefully they can get it right this time."

~Alvin Nash quoted by Mason Adams in his Roanoke Times article August 3


The Roanoke Times ran a piece in the newspaper today. In his article Mason Adams raised three primary questions that may be batted around.

• Does the council want to take another shot at development or leave it for recreation?

• If the latter, then should it be used for athletic fields, passage for the Lick Run Greenway or maybe even an aquatic facility with swimming pools?

• And if the council does want to stick with the 18-hole golf course, then who manages it? Meadowbrook? The city? Or should it issue a request for proposals?

Representatives of Countryside Neighborhood Alliance and Save Countryside will be on hand to monitor the discussion. We'll post a report here after the meeting.